The more than century-old debate of .45ACP vs 9mm rages on. But in the end does one cartridge really outperform the other?
How does the .45 ACP stack up against the 9mm:
- Unfired there's only 0.095-inch difference between .45 and 9mm's bullets
- Both cartridges can be designed to deliver more tha a foot of penetration in a human body
- While the .45 does fire heavier bullets, a 9mm gun generally has more capacity
Are you as sick of hearing this argument as I am? This has been an ongoing debate for more than 100 years. Here’s the thing: There’s no definitive way to prove which cartridge is better. Yeah, I know, you’re thinking that the .45 ACP shoots a larger-diameter and heavier bullet, therefore it has to be better. Ok, let’s consider the facts, and disregard the hype, so we can better understand this squabble.
First of all, an unfired bullet .45 ACP bullet is exactly 0.095 of an inch larger in diameter than an unfired 9mm Luger bullet. That’s just a shade larger than the thickness of a quarter. After the bullet deforms due to impact, the difference in diameter is really what matters, and that varies a lot.
Secondly, because the 9mm Luger operates at a higher pressure — 35,000 psi as opposed to 21,000 psi for the .45 ACP — it launches its bullets much faster. This, in conjunction with the faster twist rate of 9mm barrels, makes it easier to design bullets for the 9mm that will reliably expand over a broader velocity spectrum. A bullet fired from a 9mm Luger has twice the rotational velocity of one fired from a .45 ACP.
Thirdly, ammunition for both cartridges can be designed to deliver more than a foot of penetration in a human body. The FBI says that’s about all you need. Since both end up at about the same diameter, and both penetrate about the same distance, what else really matters?
Raise Your .45 ACP IQ:
- Fading Away? The .45 ACP Isn’t Going Anywhere
- 10 Top .45 Pistol Options For Any Budget
- .45 Ammo Choice For Self-Defense
- 10mm Vs .45 ACP: Making the Right Choice
Finally, the 9mm can be housed in smaller and lighter handguns. In similar-sized handguns, it can also hold more ammunition. And, because the 9mm Luger delivers less recoil, you can put more shots on target faster. The .45 ACP is not really any better than the 9mm Luger, it’s just different. Pick the one you like, learn how to shoot it and stop wasting time arguing about something neither you nor anyone else will ever be able to prove.
Editor's Note: This article originally appeared in the March 2019 issue of Gun Digest the Magazine.
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Well, proof enough for me is this. The US military went from the 1911 45 to the Beretta 9mm. They stayed with the 9mm for over 10 years. It was decided the 9mm just was not enough in the way of stopping power. We now issue the Beretta .40. So there was a sort of compromise between the old .45 and the newer 9mm
lets put this matter this way, sorry about my english guys, i lets build a wall 8 feets high 4 feets wide and 15 feets long, now i drive a VW at 60 miles in hour and hit that wall, what would happen?
The same picture, but this time i drive and 18 weeler truck but at 30 miles in hour and hit that wall again,
What do you think is going to happen?
Well the same way goes to 45 acp and 9mm,
Dont believe, thats your problem.
45acp is a lot better for self defense than 9.
I agree with capacity and recoil favoring the 9mm but you are way off on expansion as bullet designs have evolved we are seeing the 45 capable of extreme expansion federal hst 230gr tested from .860 to .900. Good luck getting close with 9mm.
9mm vs. the 45. I just have to comment, to set the record straight.
I am a combat veteran and I have used both 9mm and 45 caliber on the enemy. Pistols are used at close range to no range.
The 9mm is a supersonic light weight bullet. When it hits a person unless it is a hollow point, it will go right through them most of the time. Even a hollow point goes through a person quite often. The target absorbs about 40% to 60% of the bullets energy.
45 caliber bullets are heavy subsonic bullets. Heavy and slow. These almost never go through a person. All the energy from the bullet is absorbed by the target person. This knocks them down every time. I have shot a 160-170 lb. person from behind in the shoulder and they did a face plant into the dirt with their legs in the air. Their should socket was destroyed.
9mm performance:
I was in a close quarter combat and shot an enemy at point blank range in the chest with 2 rounds with a M11A1 Sig Sauer P228. My pistol was buried in their chest. They went down on their back. I continued on clearing the rooms. Then the target, I just took down, got up and shot me in the back. He had a 45 pistol. I was wearing body armor which absorbed most the impact but I did a face plant. Luckily my teammate behind me ended the enemy with a bullet to the head and several more to the head to make sure the target stayed down. The 45 round wrecked my armor and gave me broken ribs.
There were several more instances prior to this with the 9mm round where we hit out targets and the target kept fighting. This was the last straw for me. I got rid of all my 9mm weapons and went back to the 45 1911 (U.S. military went to the 9mm NATO round in 1996.) I also traded in my 9mm MP5’s for UMP 45s.
So if anyone has any question, it is blatantly clear the 45 round is VERY MUCH SUPERIOR to the 9mm for combat.
The only thing a 9mm round is good for is general target practice because the rounds are cheaper. The only other advantage of the 9mm that I can think of is that you can recover and aim your shots quicker with the 45 because it has less twisting torque. Meaning you can shoot more rounds quicker with more accuracy than the 45.
scientifically the 230gr .45 acp IS more powerful than a 147gr 9mm.
pressure difference and speed alone doesn’t mean its more powerful.
230gr .45ACP at 830fps has 477 joules of kinetic energy.
147gr 9mm at 990fps has 434 joules of kinetic energy.
its only 43 joules difference but its indeed 100% confirmed fact a .45 is more powerful. ( although slightly).
Case 100% closed locked, sealed, and guarded by science. go home kids, the shows over. no refunds.
I have a different take. But, first let me explain. I was a medic on a team that did SAR and recon when I was overseas back in the early 70’s. Now, contrary to popular opinion, medics carried weapons (unless they were Conscientious Objectors, and I was not.) I qualified expert with a variety of weapons before I went overseas. Due to what we did and where we were, I was issued a 19111. Now, I have 2 of them. There is a reason for that.
When I got out of the Army, I worked civilian ER’s for more than 30 years and in that time, I have seen probably hundreds of GSW’s in all calibers. We took care of one man who was shot by the cops 3 times in the head with a 9 and he survived. He went to jail after he got out of the hospital months later, but committed suicide while in jail just before his trial.
Never saw anyone hit in the head with a .45 survive. Numbers don’t matter when it comes to aiming to hit organs. People think that if you have good placement, you will get the job done. Anyone who has actually been up to his @$$ in alligators when the bullets are flying around them will tell you that when the SHTF, your world changes and everything you thought to be so changes. Time stands still or is at least very distorted. Odds are, you will not remember the events in correct order for DAYS, if ever. I have seen very few people who, under stress, maintain good shot placement.
Ask any officer who has been involved in a shooting, and IF he will talk about it, he will confirm it.
A review of NYPD shootings over 10 years showed a mean of 15% of shots fired hit the target over that period of time. The lowest percentage was 9% in 2000 and the highest was 25% in 1998.
Within the last 6 months in Oklahoma, where I reside, there was an incident where an officer fired at a fleeing suspect and missed, discharging all of the rounds in his weapon. About 15 to 20 years ago, several OCPD officer were involved in a shootout in a restaurant. Thankfully, the suspect was the only injury and it was fatal for him. Of the more than 45 rounds discharged, less than half hit the suspect, (but those that did contributed to his demise) and that at a distance of less than 5 yards. When you have twenty holes in you, they don’t have to be real big before you bleed out internally, and that is what kills you.
Until someone has been in that situation, he just needs to be quiet. Spare me from “experts” who have never been there, who have never walked those paths. This kind of thing cannot be learned by reading magazine articles or talking to people who think they know what it is like. You have to live it. If you have never been shot, you have no idea what it is like.
As I said, numbers on paper mean nothing. I will not tell someone not to carry a 9. I will tell them I have seen too many 9 mm GSW’s to the chest survive that round to make me comfortable carrying it. I have seen very few .45 wounds to the chest survive. I know that if I draw my weapon to shoot someone, he has made the decision that one of us will die. I plan for that survivor to be me.
Hell I would be happy with either over a rock. Ran a 3 man tactical psyop team in Fallujah Iraq. Give me a 9mm for combat as capacity matters in that environment. Give me a 45 here at home as capacity is less of a issue. Been in plenty of firefights and its true your a lot more accurate when your target don’t shoot back but you get better with experience
Its shot placement and proper timing, not how big one’s asset is. It all boils down to mastery of weapon with the caliber of choice. A .22 is as effective as any if properly aimed at a vital part: eyes, knees, hands, genitals, no human nor animal is invulnerable to a speeding bullet. In the “elements of combat power” doctrine, a well-trained shooter should be able to fire and hit effectively with speed and accuracy under pressure, while keeping protected from the line of opposing resistance. Never blame the gun nor the bullet for one’s ineptitude and lack of ability to stop and put down the target under any circumstance, on the range, hunting ground or in the battlefield. History shows the victor in any confrontation is always attributed to proper tactic and good maneuvering arising from constant training and discipline and not how big a stick one had.
If we read the Thompson/LaGarde tests, the real shortened report by LaGarde, not something that some current gunwriter put out, we find that the 45 works better. The anemic 455 Webley out performs the 9mm with hardball or a FP fmj (the loading at the time that the gunwriters were all agog about when it came back out 20 odd years ago). If the small calibers do not expand they are not nearly as reliable as hard ball from the 45 ACP. Read the account of Alvin York stopping a squad of charging Germans with a 1911, they charged at close range when his 1903 was empty. He not only shot them all down he shot the LAST ONE FIRST. I have 3 calibers in semi-auto, 9mm, 38 Super and 45 ACP. I carry the LW Commander in Super most with 1350 to 1400 fps 125 gr HP handloads, 357 mag/357 Sig ballistics. If I need better concealment I carry a the little 9 since its better than nothing and its only for a short time once a week. The current 45 is all steel and pretty heavy. But it will work pretty well even with hardball. The 9mm will not. The Super with the 1300 fps (1930s loading) 130 gr blunt RN its supposed to be loaded with for FMJ is better than 9mm hardball on all counts. Someone mentioned helmet penetration. I had a 45 in VN for kicks I shot a GI pot at about 20 ft with it. Had someones head been in it the dent was deep enough to kill. Helmet penetration is a fools guide to defensive handgun performance. The thing about a pistol is, as in York’s case, its the last resort, emergency weapon for the soldier. If you are close and need to use a handgun it better keep the bad guy from shooting you. The 9mm has too spotty a reputation for me to trust as my normal carry caliber. Its also poor on window glass. Such as having to shoot through a windshield. Finally in conclusion LaGarde stated that the only thing that would reliably stop a man was a 3″ solid shot. But in general bigger is better.
My EDC is 9mm. I have 2 of them. I’d carry a .45 if it would fit in my pocket. I also have 2 of them. An alternate that is small enough to fit in my pocket an probably should carry more often is a .357 magnum.
if it came down to one shot to save your life…which would you prefer?….the .45 is combat proven……..
….and, yes….I own both….
How come I hear of cops emptying their 9mm weapons at a suspect and they still keep coming at ’em?? I don’t think that will happen with a .45.
There is only one way to address this issue. Half of cops in America carry the 9mm and the other half carry .45 after 3 years tally all the results.
That will settle it once and for all.
Pistolero Magazine in the 1980’s shot barn yard hogs with the 9mm and .45 acp and found no difference in killing power at all. In 1945 the U.S. Government tested the 9mm and .45 acp on a steel military helmet. The .45 acp bounced off the helmet at 35 yards while the 9mm penetrated the helmet at an astonishing 125 yards proving that the 9mm with its higher velocity, flatter trajectory and higher capacity (they used a Canadian High Power) that the 9mm was the superior combat pistol and caliber period.
Circumstances and bullet placement dictate the outcome of targeting humans. Trying to make a science out of chaos is pointless. Most gunfights do not resemble what takes place in movies. The average individual armed with a pistol will be lucky to unsheathe their weapon in a timely manner and place their first shot where it will stop a miscreant. Most people who carry for protection don’t practice enough. And if they do, a timely swat on the head will out them. Practice, physical fitness and awareness is more important than quibbling over ballistic niceties.
Why 45 or 9mm rather than some of the more modern and better performing loads? For me it is just a matter of cost. The old cartridges are a fraction of the price of others, and much more easily found.
Have three .45 acp’s and 5 9mm. Like all. 230 gr. bullet compared to 147 gr. Have to go with .45 acp.
The question I keep asking, to which i have yet to get an answer, is why are we still arguing the merits of two cartridges that are both over a century old, instead of moving on to newer, more effective choices? For example, the .357 SIG and the .400 CorBon both outperform these two icons, but both are spinning down the drain of consumer rejection, while these two old warhorses just keep going. Why is that?